Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/19/1999 09:04 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 128(RES)                                                                                                 
"An Act moving the termination date of the Board of                                                                             
Storage Tank Assistance to June 30, 1999; relating to                                                                           
the storage tank assistance fund; relating to                                                                                   
financial assistance for owners and operators of                                                                                
underground petroleum storage tank systems; relating                                                                            
to discharges from underground petroleum storage tank                                                                           
systems; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the second hearing for this bill.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Sean Parnell moved for adoption of CS Version "I"                                                                       
as a Workdraft. Senator Al Adams objected.  He wanted to                                                                        
know what the bill would do and how this would affect the                                                                       
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson spoke to the motion. The bill that                                                                      
came to the committee from the Senate Resources Committee                                                                       
converted the grant program to a straight loan program. In                                                                      
discussion in this committee, there was concern that some                                                                       
of the "mom and pop" businesses would suffer. This CS would                                                                     
establish an income limit on the tank closure and upgrade.                                                                      
Current statute granted up to $60,000. This version would                                                                       
continue that but add a ratio of four-to-one of assets. He                                                                      
detailed the formula. In order to qualify for the tank                                                                          
upgrade grant, an owner's assets would have to be less than                                                                     
$240,000. For the tank clean-up grant, the current grant of                                                                     
$1 million would be lowered to $250,000 and the same                                                                            
formula applied. Assets for this grant would therefore have                                                                     
to be under $1 million.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Al Adams maintained his objection.  He realized the                                                                     
goal to change from a grant to a loan program.  However, he                                                                     
was unable to determine who would and who would not                                                                             
benefit. He also wondered how the enabling regulations                                                                          
could be adopted by the time the legislation went into                                                                          
effect. Co-Chair John Torgerson noted there would be more                                                                       
testimony from the department.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken referred to the sheet in the packet                                                                         
that showed the upgrades. He questioned which companies                                                                         
would qualify for the grants. Co-Chair John Torgerson noted                                                                     
that SeaLand assets were presumably higher than the four-                                                                       
to-one formula for the project they requested and they                                                                          
would not qualify.  Senator Gary Wilken asked if there                                                                          
would be another column on the spreadsheet to show the                                                                          
assets of the business.  Co-Chair John Torgerson affirmed                                                                       
and reminded there were two different categories, the tank                                                                      
upgrade and closure and the tank cleanup.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Pete Kelly asked if the assets were corporate or                                                                        
individual assets.  Co-Chair John Torgerson said it would                                                                       
depend if the company was corporate or individually owned.                                                                      
He qualified that should be clarified.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken asked if the assets would be net.  Co-                                                                      
Chair John Torgerson said that should also be discussed. He                                                                     
noted that it was not his intention to do detailed audits                                                                       
to determine eligibility. He spoke to the value of                                                                              
contaminated lands.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The CS was adopted as a workdraft by a vote of 6-1-2.                                                                           
Senator Al Adams cast the nay vote. Senator Dave Donley and                                                                     
Senator Randy Phillips were absent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director, Storage Tank Assistance                                                                       
Board, Division of Spill Prevention and Response,                                                                               
Department of Environmental Conservation, testified. He                                                                         
commended the co-chair on the progress this CS made.  He                                                                        
did have concerns about the assets figuring that the                                                                            
amounts listed in the bill could be too low. He spoke of a                                                                      
lodge-owner's total assets of over $1 million.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He proposed rewording the language to consider the net                                                                          
assets or raise the gross assets allowed. He offered to                                                                         
work with the committee to prepare new language.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He then commented on the effective date saying this would                                                                       
take effect in the height of the construction season and                                                                        
would cause work stoppages. He suggested changing the                                                                           
effective date to July 1, 2000.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson pointed out that the board would                                                                        
have one year after the effective date before it sunset. He                                                                     
asked if the board needed to operate into 2001.  John                                                                           
Barnett explained that the board would sunset in the middle                                                                     
of the construction season.  He offered that the board                                                                          
could implement the program in phases.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson wanted to know if the multi-million                                                                     
dollar corporations would still be eligible for grants                                                                          
while the effective date was delayed.  Barnett admitted                                                                         
that would be the case.  He suggested implementing the                                                                          
insurance clause immediately, which would eliminate the                                                                         
large companies from the closure list.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson did not think it would eliminate                                                                        
all the large corporations.  He did say that the committee                                                                      
should look at the effective date of the grant portion.                                                                         
The loan program would be delayed until the department                                                                          
adopted regulations.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Al Adams asked the percentage of income allowed                                                                         
under the current program. John Barnett answered that the                                                                       
original program had no income limits. He listed the                                                                            
maximum amounts available.  The department was in support                                                                       
of the committee's efforts.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken had a question about the branding                                                                           
agents.  He noted that some stations were owned and                                                                             
operated by the corporations.  Others were independently                                                                        
owned and had a brand name agreement to sell the                                                                                
corporation's product.  John Barnett spoke to the                                                                               
contractual relationships.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken wanted to know if there was a better                                                                        
way to determine the net assets.  He wondered if setting a                                                                      
formula on the amount of gas pumped or by some other                                                                            
method.  John Barnett said something similar had been                                                                           
considered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
John Barnett suggested the best way to determine assets                                                                         
would be to require the owner to submit a certified                                                                             
statement of their assets.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gary Wilken said the reason he asked those                                                                              
questions was due to a friend of his who had about $20                                                                          
million in airplanes but only one fuel tank.  He felt this                                                                      
operator should be given the grant.  Co-Chair John                                                                              
Torgerson said it was his intent that a person who could                                                                        
afford it should pay for it.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson then asked again for explanations                                                                       
of the three programs.  John Barnett explained there were                                                                       
really only two programs.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson broke down the amounts available                                                                        
for grants and the intent of the income limitations. He                                                                         
asked if the four to one assets formula was adequate.  John                                                                     
Barnett said he felt it was too low.  Co-Chair John                                                                             
Torgerson asked what was the average grant.  John Barnett                                                                       
said the closure and cleanup programs were usually tied                                                                         
together and gave the figures.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked John Barnett for his                                                                              
definition of net assets. He asked the witness to focus on                                                                      
the $60,000 grant portion requirement. The other program                                                                        
could then be addressed under the same method later.                                                                            
Barnett had conferred with Steven Daugherety of the                                                                             
Department of Law. They used the proposed four-to-one                                                                           
formula and drafted language to read, "the owner/operator                                                                       
does not have tangible net assets that exceed the product                                                                       
of multiplying the estimated cost of cleanup by four."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
John Barnett defined the $60,000 program qualifications as                                                                      
tangible net assets after deducting liability not over $1                                                                       
million at any time.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN DAUGHERETY, Assistant Attorney General, Natural                                                                          
Resources Section, Civil Division, Department of Law came                                                                       
to the table at the request of the co-chair.  Co-Chair John                                                                     
Torgerson asked if it was his recommendation to use                                                                             
tangible net worth in place of assets.  Steven Daugherety                                                                       
described how this was taken from federal language.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked if it was his recommendation                                                                      
to raise the four-to-one ratio.  Steven Daugherety                                                                              
responded that the ratio would probably work using the net                                                                      
asset definition. The liabilities would be removed. He                                                                          
detailed the liabilities involved in operating a business.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
John Barnett referred to earlier discussions about net                                                                          
worth and liability. He and Steven Daugherety had worked to                                                                     
draft language to remove that liability.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson then worked to define tangible net                                                                      
assets. There was discussion on corporate and personal                                                                          
assets. He stressed that the committee did not want to                                                                          
grant funds to the tank owners who could afford the                                                                             
cleanup. The legislation needed to be clear about that.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson asked how many of the pending                                                                           
closures or upgrades were corporations. John Barnett did                                                                        
not know specifically because that information was not                                                                          
required in the application process.  He made estimates                                                                         
based on other information he had.  He guessed that about                                                                       
half of the owners were incorporated.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson felt the tangible net assets                                                                            
provision was too broad.  He admitted the four to one ratio                                                                     
he proposed might be too narrow.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson turned to the tank cleanup program                                                                      
and asked if the department wanted to use the same tangible                                                                     
net asset provision. John Barnett responded he did.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson then wanted to know if the four-to-                                                                     
one ratio was acceptable as well. John Barnett noted that                                                                       
the current ranking system worked well.  The department                                                                         
placed most of the larger companies at the end of the list                                                                      
and most of the corporate projects would then drop off and                                                                      
not be funded by the state.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson clarified that the assets limit and                                                                     
the effective date were the only problems the department                                                                        
had with the bill.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Steven Daugherety pointed out that with corporate entities,                                                                     
it might not be possible to require them to cover the cost                                                                      
of the cleanup.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson noted that the tangible net assets                                                                      
provision could be a giant loophole.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Al Adams suggested using the federal language along                                                                     
with a cap of $1 million.  Another option would be to use                                                                       
the capacity of the tank as a guideline. Co-Chair John                                                                          
Torgerson did not have information to use as guidelines for                                                                     
any of the suggestions since the department did not require                                                                     
income as a requirement for the grants.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Al Adams had a question about the effective dates.                                                                      
Co-Chair John Torgerson did not want to leave a loophole                                                                        
for large corporations to receive the grants while waiting                                                                      
for the effective date.  It was also not his intention to                                                                       
bankrupt "mom and pop" operations.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair John Torgerson ordered the bill held in committee.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                

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